This and the following posts (Screaming to Hear Yourself Scream II, Screaming to Hear Yourself Scream III) guage the Reading the responses to the Center for Public Integrity's report Iraq: The War Card, on three bulletin boards - Alternet, The Free Republic and Military.com. Reading these one gets the sad and distinct impression that not only was there was more than one report published by the Center for Public Integrity, these were not read beyond the precis published in the press. Consequently, on both sides, these discussions have nothing to do with the report's causes, contents or consequences and everything to do with the ideological blinkers of the participants.
Because the controllers of chat rooms demand adherence to their version on the truth, the resulting discussions devolve into an exercise in ideological purity. Consequently what passes for debate and/or discussion has long since devolved into a predictable set of meta-accusations and deninciations, that plug the study into pre-existing parameters that have nothing to do with the sudy's contents or the consequences of its findings. This is intellectually lazy and obscene.
What is missing from each of these discussions are the consequences of the decision, by this Administration to construct a specific version of the truth, which it then used to justify sending 150,000 U. S. Servicemen into Iraq. No one, be he or she liberal or conservative ever discuss this report through the prism of the war and how the evidence provided may affect those ordered to execute the Administration's policy over the last five years.
The following coments were posted to The Free Republic bulletin boards, January 26th, 2008
These posts were not given titles.
In December of 2004, the Center’s board of directors choose a successor, television journalist Roberta Baskin. Baskin came to the Center after directing consumer investigations for ABC News’s 20/20 and serving as Washington correspondent for PBS’s NOW with Bill Moyers.
ridiculous....... even at worse “false” is only proven after the fact...... the point here is to drive the idea of “lies”.....
Does the study mention that the statements were also made by both Clintons, John Kerry, Ted Kennedy, Madeline Albright, Joe Biden, etc."
The study was posted Tuesday on the Web site of the Center for Public Integrity, which worked with the Fund for Independence in Journalism.
This is just more political absurdity. The admission is made right inside the "study", that it's purpose is to get more democrats elected in the 2008 elections.
The 'Center for Public Integrity' has none, and the 'Fund for Independence in Journalism' isn't. They are both mouthpieces for the hard-left portion of the DNC.
When does the study of the statements of the Democrats and all the credible intelligence sources of the world come out?
This has been discussed over the past few days on FR. What this article you posted does not reveal is that the “independent” journalism organizations are funded by George Soros and are not exactly “independent” after all. Do a simple google search and you will find out plenty about the Center for Public Integrity and the Fund for Independence in Journalism
Nothing like good ol’ Soros funded “Center for Public Integrity” and “Fund for Independence in Journalism”.
These two win the award for Doublespeak of the Day.
I got an e-mail about this from a high school acquaintance. I e-mailed back that most of the statements being called lies were also made by the previous administration, and many of the countries around the world.
When I read drivel like this, it always occurs to me that there seems to be a dearth of "studies" conducted by "independent" conservative groups.
I typically attribute that to the usual MSM bias, but it does make one pause to wonder where the conservative equivalents of these so-called "think tanks" are, and why their "studies" never hit the front page.
There never was a war that was built on truth. Someone always tells a lie, and others believe it.
We know Saddam Hussein and his regime had WMDs and that they had used them both against Iran and against their own people. Apparently, they had no nuclear weapons...but we also know he wanted them.
To say that the Hussein regime had the chemical and biological weapons programs earlier and that they had eliminated them all before our invasion is not credible. It is much more likely that he either hid thgem, or remove them from the country. Those types of wepaons (cehmical wepaons) were found. In either case, the facts remain, and are indisputable, Huseein had and used WMDs in the past aginst his enemies and his own people and was a proven threat to the region.
Huseein's regime had regular contacts with Al Quida operatives. Whether he actively particpated in the planning of 911 is irrelevent to the that he did communicate with them.
Finally, also without dispute is that Hussein regularly and blatantly violated the terms of the caese fire and peace that he capitualted to after Desert storm. For over 10 years. We were justified in taking him down on that basis alone. And the world is far better for it.
Added to this his thumbing his nose at the resolutions regarding his WMD programs that led to the actual invasion.
The left is insane with envy and anger at Bush because he successfully ended the tyranny...and particularly that he ended the pet food for oil programs that so many socialist governments (and I bet, truth be known, leftisists in this country) were benefitting from. The left just hates Bush irrationally and they will (like many of the enviro-whacko "findings" and reports) will stretch the truth themsleves to try and "prove" to the rest of us how bad Bush is.
Well, I am glad Bush went into Iraq and took Hussein down. He has taken the fight to the enemy in their back yard and the Islamic radicals MUST fight us there and they know it. Hence, they are not able to attack here, and tens, perhaps hundreds, of thosuands of them are being killed in the process. At the same time, Bush, with his policy, has effectively encircled the largest state sponsor of terror, Iran. This is something that also infuriates the left...precisely because Bush has been successful in these aims when they forecasted doom and gloom and defeat...and are still doing so.
The Bush doctrine has also sent a much needed message to the rest of the tin-horn dictators and terorrists around the world, and has helped influence (IMHO) the election of much more conservative governments in Germany and France.
People are often unreasonable, irrational, and self-centered. Forgive them anyway.
If you are kind, people may accuse you of selfish, ulterior motives. Be kind anyway.
If you are successful, you will win some unfaithful friends and some genuine enemies. Succeed anyway.
If you are honest and sincere people may deceive you. Be honest and sincere anyway.
What you spend years creating, others could destroy overnight. Create anyway.
If you find serenity and happiness, some may be jealous. Be happy anyway.
The good you do today, will often be forgotten. Do good anyway.
Give the best you have, and it will never be enough. Give your best anyway.
In the final analysis, it is between you and God. It was never between you and them anyway.
-this version is credited to Mother Teresa
Bush led with 259 false statements... That was second only to Powell's 244 false statements
What's wrong with this statement?
Idiots can't even write intelligent hit pieces.
The study was posted Tuesday on the Web site of the Center for Public Integrity, which worked with the Fund for Independence in Journalism.
Bill Moyers pack of liars
The 'Center for Public Integrity' has none, and the 'Fund for Independence in Journalism' isn't. They are both mouthpieces for the hard-left portion of the DNC.
We 'ran' them the last time this story was posted. They both have a Soros affiliation.
The study consists of starting with the premise that the statements were false, then counting them. It provides no information whatsoever as to the truth or falsity of the statements.
George Soros made his billions by wrecking Economys and then Cashing in , “ A biblical money-Changer”
Now America’s Economy is on the rocks, and Soros is calling for investment in China’s economy, anyone see a link?
Soros is no friend of any American, and any Think Tank funded by Him cannot be telling the truth.
Soros Hates America.
What this article you posted does not reveal is that the “independent” journalism organizations are funded by George Soros and are not exactly “independent” after all.
Yep. FR thread from last week below.
George Soros Funded Study Says Bush Lied
"It is now beyond dispute that Iraq did not possess any weapons of mass destruction or have meaningful ties to al-Qaida," according to Charles Lewis and Mark Reading-Smith of the Fund for Independence in Journalism staff members, writing an overview of the study."
The statement demonstrates two areas of supreme intellectual dishonesty on the left.
The issue of WMDs is not what was or was not found, but what was the intelligence consensus on the subject. To have accepted that intelligence consensus, and acting on it, was neither a matter of deception or a lie.
The issue of Al Queda and Saddam is one where the left, and the 9/11 Commission as well, simply choose to cherry-pick the evidence and pretend that a lack of a Saddam-Osama meeting is proof of a lack of cooperation.
“”I got an e-mail about this from a high school acquaintance””
Same here - somewhat gleefully. I sent a reply that Soros had funded the study and she wrote back that she didn’t know that! I also said that obviously nearly everyone in the free world was lying at the time! Facts that don’t fit aren’t brought up.
WMD’s - I like to make the anology that obviously Nicole Brown Simpson and Ron Goldman weren’t murdered since no murder weapon was ever found.
Wow. Just wow. Nothing like good Ole’ agenda-driven journalism.
Or the fact that George Soros heavily funded both to generate this lie.
Notwithstanding he also funded the Lancet project that claimed the deaths of nearly a half a million Iraqis by U.S. Forces.
Just gotta love it when the NeoComm’s get caught generating blatant lies.
The people who authored this study are either liars themselves or extraordinarily stupid. Did Bush retroactively manipulate intelligence in both the U.S. and abroad?
A study by two nonprofit journalism organizations .. with axes to grind
agenda, yup. driving a late 1930s German model I’d say,,
“It is now beyond dispute that Iraq did not possess any weapons of mass destruction or have meaningful ties to al-Qaida,” according to Charles Lewis and Mark Reading-Smith of the Fund for Independence in Journalism staff members, writing an overview of the study. “In short, the Bush administration led the nation to war on the basis of erroneous information that it methodically propagated and that culminated in military action against Iraq on March 19, 2003.”
>>>>>No it’s not and there’s no way to know that.
Just another transparent Soros project. Nothing to see here.
You mean like the vast right wing conspiracy described the Clinton lies BEFORE the hypocrats discovered they lied about Obamalamadingdong?
They remind me of the People’s Republic of China and the Democratic Republic of East Germany.
When I get into arguments about the start of the war, the distinction between a statement that is later proven false and a deliberate lie often is the problem.
"It is now beyond dispute that Iraq did not possess any weapons of mass destruction or have meaningful ties to al-Qaida," ... "In short, the Bush administration led the nation to war on the basis of erroneous information that it methodically propagated and that culminated in military action against Iraq on March 19, 2003."
Quite correct.
The problem is that relating "erroneous information" is only "lying" if you know it is erroneous. I have seen nothing that would confirm that somehow Bush and Cheney had better data than the CIA and the rest of the world's intelligence agencies back in 2003. Plus - do we have absolute evidence that the WMDs were not taken form Iraq in the days and weeks leading up to the war? There is a lot of evidence that says they were. In that case the basic premise of this so called "Study" would itself be wrong and therefore meaningless. In fact, it is simply another, probably Soros sponsored, piece of garbage propaganda.
An added note: This is so typical of the Libs. They invent what amounts to a lie ("Bush Lied) then they repeat this lie daily in their MSM outlets until it becomes material for the history books. It then enters the history books and becomes Liberal Gospel, not to be challenged for accuracy. Global Warming is the most recent example of this technique. It is effective and the Libs are master craftsman when it comes to it's implementation.“When I get into arguments about the start of the war, the distinction between a statement that is later proven false and a deliberate lie often is the problem.”
That is precisely the problem. Between stories that Saddam deliberately created the impression he had WMD’s, and satellite pictures of convoys of trucks driving from Iraq into Syria just before the invasion, and a lack of desire to investigate these possibilities for political reasons, the whole matter is a big jumble.